BONUS. Why Anti-Abortion Protesters Get Special Treatment from Police

Almost every Black Lives Matter protest in 2020 saw a police response. But police rarely intervene in anti-abortion protests, despite the fact that these protests frequently involve violations of federal law. Writer Molly Shah shares what she found when she looked into this discrepancy.

Guest: Molly Shah, Anti-Abortion Protesters Get Special Treatment from Police, The Real News

Logo by Kate Ryan, Music by Lily Sloane, photo by Robin Marty.

Transcript below.

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Garnet Henderson [00:00:01] Hey, everyone, this bonus episode is our last of 2020, and I am really excited about what we have planned for 2021, but I need your help to get those episodes into as many ears as possible. So my end-of-year request is that you share the show. Every time people do this, I see a bump in our downloads. And for an indie podcast like this one, that's a big deal. So you can share the show directly with a friend, we love that, or share it on social media. That's what I'm asking of you. An email, a text, a tweet, or a Facebook post, if anybody still uses Facebook, to help more people find our show, thank you in advance. And let's get into it. 

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Garnet [00:01:21] Welcome to ACCESS, a podcast about abortion. I'm your host, Garnet Henderson. Today, I'm bringing you a bonus interview with Molly Shah, who wrote an article for The Real News about the special treatment that anti-abortion protesters get from the police. Molly's article was published on the same day that I published Episode 5 of this podcast, which was all about protests and harassment at abortion clinics during the pandemic. So that's how we connected. Molly's article focuses on four cities: Minneapolis, Kenosha, Louisville and Portland, and directly contrasts the way that police have treated Black Lives Matter protesters with the way they've treated anti-abortion protesters in those cities. She also delves into some longstanding connections between anti-abortion violence and white supremacist groups. If you haven't listened to Episode 5, I would recommend going back and doing that now because we do reference it a few times in our conversation. But without further ado, here's my interview with Molly Shah. 

Molly Shah [00:02:27] My name is Molly Shah. I'm a writer and I live in Berlin, Germany. I'm from Louisville, Kentucky, and when I was there, I did a lot of reproductive rights activism. I started #AskBevinAboutMyVag, where we sent like questions to our governor who was really interested in our and our bodies, apparently. And I did some other stuff with Planned Parenthood and things like that. And then I also was a legal observer at EMW, which is, was, the last clinic in Kentucky. Now, actually, Planned Parenthood has another clinic that opened in March, maybe. And then I wrote an article for The Real News. 

Garnet [00:03:11] And so you wrote about how anti-abortion protesters get special treatment from the police and specifically you compared that to the way police have reacted to the Black Lives Matter protests that happened across the US, particularly over the summer. So I wonder if you could just say a little bit about what you found there when you compared those two things? 

Molly [00:03:31] Sure. I think the main thing they saw was that when you looked at the two things, there was a lot of talk about how the police were being very hypocritical and they weren't going after protesters that were in front of abortion clinics and they were going after Black Lives Matter protesters. And I think that I can understand that impulse to say it's hypocritical, because it certainly feels hypocritical, but it's actually very consistent. It's... The police are there to uphold the white patriarchal power structure. And one good way to do that is to go after people who are protesting the police in particular, but also white supremacy. And and then another way to do that is to try to control the bodies of pregnant people. So it's it's very consistent kind of thing. So when you looked at it, you saw this big discrepancy. Like, I looked at four cities. I looked at kind of overall and then I focused on four cities. But when you looked at the data, you could see that the police here were very aggressive against Black Lives Matter protests in the city. And when you talk to people there that worked at clinics and stuff, you you in every city saw that there was a strong presence outside the clinic. Oftentimes they were obstructing. Oftentimes there were assaults. Oftentimes there were loudspeakers, all kinds of things that you were seeing people complain about Black Lives Matter protests and were being used as a pretext for violence there. That police basically, I think that like I talked to in the four different places, I feel like only one place said that, like the police ever gave anything, even a citation, like, you know, I mean, like no one ever got arrested. They did say that there was like one situation in Louisville where, and this was several years ago, where they literally laid in front of the door and they blocked access to the entrance. And apparently that went on for like two hours almost before they arrested anyone, you know, I mean, they were blocking access to patients trying to get into the last abortion, you know place to get an abortion in Kentucky at that time. And, you know, I mean, the police... And then when they did arrest them, it was very congenial, and like, we understand why you're here and like we support you. And that just, you know, is not the experience that people are having at Black Lives Matter and racial justice protests anywhere. Right. 

Garnet [00:06:01] And I heard a really similar story when I spoke with Laura Chelian of Northland Family Planning in Michigan, where they had a clinic blockade this summer where people physically blocked the entrances to the clinic and it took about an hour and a half for the police to start making arrests, even though the staff was saying there's a federal law and they're violating it right now. So I'd love to talk a little bit about that law, which I do mention in the episode. It's called The FACE Act, The Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act. 

Molly [00:06:33] Yes. So that law was passed in the 90s. It's through in the Clinton administration. And it's really like the only real abortion legislation that comes after Ronald Reagan, basically, that I can think of on a federal level, you know, that's like protecting abortion. And it's basically sets up the, you can't, and it's not just for abortion clinics. It's also applies to religious institutions because that's how they got it in there. And, you know, it makes it a federal crime. And you can there's criminal penalties and there's also civil penalties for blocking these things. It's very rarely used, I would say, particularly since the Bush administration, Bush two administration. It's basically been used very sparingly. And when it has been used, it's almost always been civilly. There's some exceptions, I'm sure. And when you look at situations like clinics, like the one in Charlotte and the one in, which I think you talked to in your episode, and then the one in Louisville as well, which is the one I'm more familiar with. I mean, you're talking like, they're violating the FACE Act every day. They are like, you know, they are consistently, you can see pictures that they post, they are blocking entrances, they are getting in people's faces. They're, you know, they're blocking sidewalks. They're doing anything they can. And like, you know, it might move really quickly, particularly because they have really good escorts there that help people get in and they know how to kind of navigate it. And so it's sort of become just like this rote thing that everyone does at clinics is like, oh, we have to get people in and we have to get them out and, you know, they're violating this. But what are we going to do? You know, like if you what are you going to do? Like the first person? Like, they won't let me in and you're going to call the cops? And that is something I want to talk about, about calling the cops, because I don't think that's a good idea. Like, I don't want like my article, even though it is saying that the cops do not respond to this, like, I don't think calling the cops is like usually a good idea, really ever, but particularly in front of these things, because I think the cops are not because they are not there. They are there to uphold the white supremacist patriarchal power structure. So calling the cops in these situations oftentimes does not help people at abortion clinics, like staff or escorts or patients, because they end up either doing nothing, which is the most typical response or, you know, I mean, sometimes like because particularly people who walk in, like people who accompany people, men usually, to abortion clinics, I mean, sometimes they get aggressive, which is understandable, like why they would get aggressive with the protesters. And I've heard on numerous occasions those men being charged or those men haven't, you know, like there was a situation in Louisville where there was a push and I believe somebody was charged. And so I don't think calling the cops is necessarily the best idea or maybe ever good idea. But it's just a total discrepancy as to how any of this is going to be treated. It's like, I try to think of like taking my kid to the pediatrician and like somebody blocking the entrance, like, what would you do? Like I mean, like, clearly that would feel unlawful to you, like that somebody was blocking. And even if you had to, like, shove around them or yell at them to get out of your way, it would be like a horrible experience like to do that. And like to think that, like oftentime abortions are done when people are stressed and there's like a lot going on. There's a time limit, you know, like sometimes they have to go back to clinics twice, sometimes more than that to like it. So it's just a very high stakes situation to have these protesters outside. 

Garnet [00:10:23] Sure. And in addition to those FACE Act violations, you know, I heard a lot of stories of protests violating some of the covid safety orders that have been issued in different states and local municipalities. And also, you know, no enforcement happening on that front either. Not breaking up large gatherings of people, not asking people to put on masks. 

Molly [00:10:47] No. And even though that was used as a common reason why Black Lives Matter protests were getting police response, although every single one I've ever been to like has been like, people protect their other people, but in front of abortion clinics and I mean, like, you know, there's a divide in this country that's clear, like where people who aren't wearing masks tend to be right wing because of the way that somehow masks got politicized. And so these are right wing protesters that are in front of these abortion clinics. And a lot of times I would say the majority of times they're not wearing masks and they're very close to people. And I mean, also we're talking about pregnant people. A lot of you know, a lot of these people are pregnant. So it's just like so hypocritical to be like I'm pro-life. And it's like, you're physically obstructing a pregnant person and you're possibly making them ill. So if, like, what is your goal here? And I looked at the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project. It's the ACLED, and that's where I got a lot of my statistics. And they were really nice and sent me for each of the cities. And you're just talking about like ninety five percent of these protests were, the racial justice protests were, what they would call peaceful. And like to me, actually, they have a like sort of narrow definition of peaceful because basically they were considering any property damage is not peaceful. And to me, it's like properties aren't, property isn't people. So but even if you take their narrow definition of peaceful, like ninety five percent of Black Lives Matter protests were peaceful. There was no, like, obstruction of anything. There was nothing happening. It was peaceful. And one in ten, were getting responses by the police. And in some of these cities, like in Minneapolis, I think it's like sixty percent were getting like police response. And by police response they mean like kettling, which is like when you trap a bunch of people into an area and then usually use tear gas, paintballs. There was like in Portland in particular, abductions off the street by who knows, who knows who did that really in Portland. And you just it's just such a contrast to how how any other protesters were being treated, because the ACLED was saying even the the Covid, there were all these Covid protests by right wingers. And, you know, some of them were really rhetorically violent, like with like stringing up people. And then later that came out that some of them were trying to kidnap the governor of Michigan. And they they had very low police response, you know, compared to any of the Black Lives Matter racial justice protests anywhere in the in the country. So it's just it's just a huge gulf. 

Garnet [00:13:32] And and you see that kind of rhetorical violence among anti-abortion protesters, too. I mean, there were audio clips that I listened to for the episode that I felt like I couldn't play in full because they were so disturbing and so violent. And that is what people who work at abortion clinics and escort at abortion clinics and go to get abortions at these clinics are hearing when they're coming in and out. And the problem is that's connected to a very real history of violence, which is something you also mention in your article. So I'd love if you could say a bit more about that. 

Molly [00:14:13] Sure. Well, I've looked at sort of like the history of anti-abortion violence and and its ties specifically to white supremacy, because my view is that they're all kind of tied together. And I looked at the National Abortion Federation releases every year statistics about violence at clinics and it's very high. So since it's 1977, so there's 11 murders, 26 attempted murders, 42 bombings, 189 arsons, and then 11,905 incidents of clinic violence. And then that's like violence, like the high level things. But then also if you just add obstruction, harassment, threats and picketing, which at some time outside of some of these clinics just daily, it's 714,076. It's just like I mean, to me that's like such a high number. It's just really, and police response basically, I mean, I'm assuming they respond to murders, but other than that, it's just very low. And and a lot of times, even with the higher incidence of violence, like is not people aren't getting prosecuted. Things aren't always going all the way through. You have like ties to the white supremacist movement. And you even see that like recently where there was the new feminist group. What's the... New Wave Feminists leader? She's, it's like the, I like call them like the hipster pro-life people or whatever. But one of their leaders was like tied to like ethno-nationalist groups. And so there's all these like very strong connections. And when you see the people that like like they frequently of the protesters at abortion clinics will then go protest at Black Lives Matter and racial justice protests or or the ones where I always you see this pride protest, they would constantly be there, counterprotesting those things. So it's the same people. And there's just like a lot of the particularly the murders that happened in the nineties were were tied to skinhead movements and to this to various right wing groups. There's a group called the Army of God that's there. And they you know, they have ties to the 1982 kidnapping, the attempted murder of George Tiller, and the Atlanta Olympic Park bombings, which are tied to Eric Rudolph, who would also bomb two abortion clinics. And then they even tie to Robert Dear, who is the the Planned Parenthood shooter in Colorado had some ties to the Army of God. It was sort of how substantial those were, I think is a little bit in dispute. But he claims he had ties to the Army of God. So it's just it's really, and to me that just all kind of like builds on, like, this is very consistent. Like, this is not, like this is a mission that is not just about like, it's not just about abortion, it's about control of like a, of our of a society that's white, that's patriarchal, that's heteronormative, that's cisnormative, you know. It's this particular control. It's all tied together. And that's why you see these people involved in all these various right wing organizations like you don't, you see all this overlap and that's because it's all about the same thing. It's not about different things. And I think that's like one of the really good things about the reproductive justice movement is you look at it more wholly, you look at the entire, reproductive justice is not just about abortion. It's also about Black Lives Matter. Because, like, if you can't protect your body, if you can't protect your child who's walking, who's walking and gets shot by a police officer, then that's the same thing as you can't access a clinic because it's all about the ability to, like, make decisions for yourself and control your body and protect your family. And however you want, you know, to have that safety and then to have that autonomy over your own body. And I looked at this book called The Police Power, Patriarchy and the Foundations of American Government by Markus Dirk Dubber. And he talks about paterfamilias, which is the idea that the states would govern the citizens the same way that a father governs the family. And that's how American justice is set up. Like that is the basis for the American justice system is, it's set on this idea of paterfamilias. It's like so it's ingrained when we talk about systemic racism or systemic sexism or systemic misogyny like that is literally what it is based on. Like the entire system is based on this idea of like we control our citizens, like a father controls his family and like not a nice father, you know, like it's very like they mean like, you know, like I have control over my women. I have control over my children and I can, you know, have control over the bodies and my family. 

Garnet [00:19:37] Is there anything we haven't talked about yet that you want to add anything? I didn't ask you that I should have. 

Molly [00:19:43] The other thing just about paterfamilias, that, too, is that, like, it's kind of tied into this, like hypermasculinity you see in the police force and then like it's about personhood and who has personhood and like typically who is denied personhood and society is Black people. Like I mean, literally in the Constitution are denied personhood and then also women have been denied personhood in other groups. And so then when you talk about the combination of that, you know, pregnant people are not people because you get to control their bodies and Black people, you can shoot because they are not considered people to like this, like society, like how the society looks at them. It's like a level of personhood that's lower and it's just all kind of the same thing. You know, it's all the police I feel like very much respond to everything is like who do we control and who do we protect? And, you know, their decision is based on how the society is set up. 

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Garnet [00:21:18] Thanks so much to Molly for joining us today. Her article is linked in the show notes. ACCESS is produced by me, Garnet Henderson. Our logo is by Kate Ryan and our theme music is by Lily Sloan. Don't forget to share the show with your friends. You can also help people find us by leaving a rating or review. And please subscribe to ACCESS wherever you get your podcasts. We are on Twitter and Instagram @accesspod and you can donate to the show by visiting glow.fm/apodcastaboutabortion. That's in the show notes as well. A full transcript of this episode is available on our website, apodcastaboutabortion.com. Happy New Year, everybody. I'm wishing you health and safety and something that makes you smile. See you in 2021.